Interview : Speak of The Devil

Co-writer/producer/lead Matt Heath talks to Nick Grant about the making of feature film The Devil Dared Me To.

Hi Matt, how’s it going? Onfilm here – you good to talk?
Oh right. Hang on, I’ll just get someone to order me another round of beers and then I’ll be right with ya… Just gotta see where I put my wallet. [pause] Hey Chris … [inaudible exchange] Okay, you still there? Hello? I can talk now. Sorry, we’re just having some post screening beers with some Germans.

Ah, so that’s what you’re doing in Berlin then?
Yeah, our movie just played at the Berlin Fantasy Festival tonight. Basically we’ve been in Germany for five days – we’re just cruising around playing our movie in festivals in different towns, before we go to London where it’s playing in another festival, and we were in Canada prior to arriving in Germany…

So how are the audiences in different countries responding to what’s some pretty idiosyncratic Kiwi humour?
It’s funny – in Canada they were hugely raucous, in Texas it went down really well, in Germany they laughed at different jokes but it’s going down well here as well. So it’s kinda weird, it’s been kinda universal, but I think that’s because it’s simple – it’s not heavy on dialogue and it’s quite fast-paced, so people get something out of it.

The humour derived from horrific injuries obviously travels well then.
Yeah, it seems to… Having said that, I think maybe our accents might be a little bit of a problem sometimes. We introduce the film and then do Q&As afterwards and some of the questions make you aware that they didn’t fully understand something you might have said in the movie. And the problem is especially with me for some reason; they seem to understand [co-writer/-lead/director] Chris [Strapp]. Maybe it’s to do with being from the ends of the South Island, perhaps my dialect’s a little harder to understand or something.

So what kind of questions are you getting at the Q&As? What’s the worst or most irritating question you tend to get?
We’re were just talking about that actually – we know every question that’s going to be asked before it’s asked, we’ve done it so much now. It’s like, “Did you do your own stunts?”, “Does that girl really have a missing leg?” [laughs], you know, there’s about six or seven questions that always get asked. Though you do get some different ones, like tonight there were a lot about my character Dick. And there’s always the same joke question – there’s a bit in the movie where my character ends up in prison for a while –

And gets a bit of shower love.
Yeah, so people are always, “Ah, did you enjoy that scene?” [laughs] So always the same questions, but it makes it easy for us to answer them and we get funnier – and quicker – every night, which is great. [laughs]

So what’s the best question you’ve been asked so far?
Oh, there was one in one of the German cities where someone asked us whether we are aware of a Canadian stuntman who did a stunt similar to the one in the film, and we said, yeah, our film’s basically a tribute to that stuntman in a way – a Canadian stuntman called Ken Carter.

The Devil at Your Heels, yeah?
Yeah, that was the doco about him. The whole Randy Cambell thing started about the same time as we were shown that doco years ago by Ant Timpson, who’s now one of our executive producers, so it’s been hugely influential for us and obviously for the title of the film. So it was cool to get asked the question, because it’s such an obscure documentary. So yeah, that was cool, because even in Canada we had to tell them about the doco. It was definitely a good question, because it was like, “Fuck yeah, it is, man – fucking well spotted, good shit!”

Does it feel good to have finished making the film and be in the selling phase?
Yeah. I mean, we’ve been doing a lot of other stuff at the same time, so it feels like we’ve been working on this film for a while. But it’s good that it’s all come to fruition and it’s all done – I love watching it now and going, “We can’t change anything.” When we were in post and editing it, we’d always be waking up in the middle of the night going, “Shit, this is what we should do!” And right up to the last minute we were going off and shooting little bits and getting more money together to add gags and such like and so forth, and so it’s great to watch it now and go, “There’s nothing we can do!”
It is what it is now. I mean, I sat through this screening, I normally turn up at the start, introduce it and then go and have a drink at a bar or something before going back for the Q&A but I sat through it tonight and I really enjoyed it. Now I’ve had a little bit of space I can go, “I love all of it.”

So in terms of the film itself, how long has it been since you sat down and started nutting out the script for it?
I’m not sure – it was a few years ago that we first wrote it down. But since we started working on it seriously with the intention of making it into a feature film, it’s been about two years.

That’s pretty quick. So when did you finish shooting?
About June 2006, something like that – but we shot pick-ups for a long time after that. We had the full crew shoot, with all the trucks and catering that lasted six weeks but the very last shot was just Chris, me and our DOP Duncan [Cole]. At one point there were about 60 in the crew, a whole heap of people, and then for the last shot it had come down to just the last three dudes. [laughs]

From what I understand it was a real rip-shit-and-bust shoot – something like 34 days, 25 locations…
Yeah, yeah, something like that – it was a real whirlwind. I remember there were 25 locations and 25 cars.

So you went through 25 cars?
Yeah we destroyed 25 cars. [laughs] One thing we wanted to do right from the start was, yeah it was low budget but I hate films that feel small, so we wanted to have a lot of locations so it feels like it’s going somewhere, you know. A lot of people feel that if they’ve got a low budget they need to shoot it all in one place to keep costs down, but we were, “Fuck that! People are just going to have to move around and be prepared to drive a bit every day and set up.” Which had its implications for the art department, but …

So how did you balance your desire to paint on a relatively broad canvas with the fact you had a small budget? Obviously people’s fees were largely deferred for instance…
Yeah, everyone was getting paid, but not much. We did a deal where everyone from top to bottom was paid the same, and Chris and I worked on it for about half a year for basically no pay.

So what did you most enjoy about the whole shoot process?
It was really cool meeting and hanging with all the people who worked on it. It was just really fun; great having catering and things like that which we hadn’t had before. And yeah, there’s a reasonable level of camaraderie that comes from being involved in something where everyone needs to muck in to get things done.
It was a really fun time, and we met some really good people – like Duncan, the DOP, who’s a really awesome dude we’re still working with. So I guess the whole sense of everyone being in it together when you’re up against it and being able to pull it off against the odds – it’s a cool feeling.

I remember when we spoke about a year ago you and Chris saying that it was really refreshing to have a crew and therefore not to have to do every single job yourself, which has usually been the case with your shorts and TV shows.
Yeah and everyone’s good at their job and takes pride in what they do. And the whole production is so well organised, from your gaffers to your grips, art department and so on. It’s really cool and works so well as a system.

I’ve always been under the impression that, prior to making The Devil Dared Me To, you and Chris exemplified the whole Kiwi DIY approach in your filmmaking. But are you guys in fact entirely self-taught or have you actually done some screen-related training or education at some stage?
No, we’ve never done anything like that at all. I’ve spent my entire life watching films and so has Chris, and then we started making short films as part of a competition at Otago University and then our TV shows – that was our training. To begin with we were pretty shit but we’ve got better at it just by doing it. And every time you work with someone new, you learn shit from them. But no, we’ve never gone to film school or anything like that.

Was there anything involved in making The Devil Dared Me To that was more challenging than enjoyable?
I dunno… Hmmm, I guess the logistics – you know, as things get bigger the logistics get a lot more difficult. Like, you want to shoot three locations in a day and it’s a real issue to move everyone and then make sure there’s enough parking – all those little things.
So yeah, it all becomes increasingly complex. You know, on a bit of paper you’re going to shoot there, there and there – “Let’s go”! But it turns out it’s not possible. So one thing you have to learn is to be patient – “This shot cannot be done for an hour, so just deal with it, dude.” Be aware if it’s going to be good, it’s going to take a bit of time. You can’t just wave a handicam around vaguely near the action. [laughs]
That’s something our DOP, Duncan, had to teach us. At the start of the shoot I’d go, “I want to shoot this and I want to do it now.” And he’d be like, “Nah, it’s going to take us 45 minutes to set up the lights.” “Fucking what?” And then a week into it, it’s like, “Oh that’s fine, that’s the way it works.” [laughs] It’s a different pace.

Hurry up and wait.
Yeah, totally, exactly. But it’s kind of fun too and it would give us the chance to talk to actors, change their lines, have a laugh, play practical jokes and just be a dick, really.

In terms of dividing duties up during the shoot, how did that work? I mean, you and Chris were co-writers and co-leads, and officially he was the director and you were a co-producer with Karl Zohrab. But was Karl more hands-on with the producing during the shoot to free you up to think about your performance, for instance?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there were always final decisions to be made, but a good example is with the call sheets – I’d always say that on the call sheet I wanted where I’d have to be and at what time but I didn’t want any other information. So it’d be safe to say that I didn’t take a huge interest in the details, but when it came to the big calls I was definitely in there.

How about Chris’ directing, given I presume he’s in almost every scene? I get the impression that your roles are pretty fluid and that you’d put on the director’s hat at times, as it were, while he’d act as a co-producer when required?
Yeah, we’ve been working together for a long time, so we pretty much agree on almost everything. So it’s easy – I mean, we really just ran around and did it pretty much the way we’ve always done it. And there’s so much set-up time, there’s time to run around and look at the monitor before you have to be in position and plenty of time to talk to everyone about what they’re meant to be doing and all that sort of stuff.
So Chris could be in front of the camera but he could also run round and have a good chat about what was coming up. And yeah, as I say, there was enough time for a lot of acting the goat, so it wasn’t as complex as it might sound, having us in front of the camera as well as behind it. Especially when you can really trust the people you’re working with.

You said earlier that everything you’ve made has been a learning experience, so what’s the major lesson from making The Devil Dared Me To?
Just the fact that you don’t have to do absolutely everything, because there are people who are very good at doing their particular thing. For example, we haven’t worked with a DOP before, or grips and gaffers and so on. So just let them do their thing, because they’re awesome professionals and it allows you to concentrate on what you need to do. I mean, Chris and I have always edited our own stuff, but this time we got Bryan Shaw on to edit with us as well and he was brilliant. You don’t have to do anything.

So did it take you a few days of the production for you to warm to the idea of delegating?
Yeah, on the first day Chris and I were running up the hill carrying everything, you know, and everyone else was like, “Oh yeah, that’s interesting.” [laughs] And by the end of it we were more content to sit around eating catering and let things fall into place without us. [laughs] And it was great to see everyone in the various departments rise to the occasion and really exceed our expectations. It made us feel proud to be part of it all.
Same with the editing. Chris and I really had to be pried away from the editing suite – we wanted to press the buttons all the time – but Bryan brought so much more to it. So the more heads involved the better. I guess.

So if you knew then what you know now, is there anything you would have done differently?
No, I’d love to do it again, exactly the same. I mean, you use so many favours making a low budget film like this, so that’s one thing that’d it be good to do differently – I think people should be paid properly. It’s audacious to try and make a film like we did, with 25 locations and all that kind of stuff, but ultimately I’d like to do the same again with the same people, you know. Given the right budget.

So is there any project in particular you’re hoping to get up next?
Yeah, we’ve got a few things. I mean, whenever we’re on a plane or a train, we’re always writing on our laptops, basically writing constantly. But we might end up doing someone else’s script next or we might not – we’ve got an agent in LA who’s sending us things.
We just want to keep making films, and the other thing is we want to get back to New Zealand and finish our TV show for TV3 ’cos up to the day before we got on the plane for this trip we were on set shooting that. So the day after we get back we’ll be back on set.
Basically our aim is to always be working. Though me and Chris have been doing this for a long time and it’s not like work, it’s fun. Like, one day we when were in London a few years ago we had a day off from shooting this show we were doing and we were like, “Fuck, holidays suck!” Working is like a big adventure playground and on days off we walk around wondering what to do. [laughs] It’s an odd feeling, but when we’re not working, we’re writing. We just want to keep on keeping on.

Cool – one last question. What’s your pitch to potential audience members as to why they should see the movie?
Basically because we’ve spent every second of the two years we’ve worked on this film sweating blood to make sure it’s worth people’s $15.
We’ve constantly thought that this film must deliver absolutely everything necessary to make it worth your 15 bucks and maybe another $15 for your girlfriend’s ticket, plus some popcorn and some fucking Jaffas and whatever.
It’s an entertaining film from start to finish, and it’s a cinematic experience as well as a thrill-ride. We’re very conscious of the need to entertain people. I watched it today and I enjoyed it. [laughs]
• The Devil Dared Me To receives a nationwide theatrical release on 11 October.

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